Hey rebel8, this makes so much sense to me now, when it first happened i thought i was imagining the reasons for the nightmares going away, but now I figure it can be the only reason. Sounds to me like your dreams were 'very direct' in pointing out what the problem was, it's almost as though the answers are within us and we just have to see them. Adjusted Knowledge it really is amazing what the brain does; it's wonderful how the dreams start to adjust when your life situations change. Personally for me, the dreams were confirmation that I had done the right thing in walking away from that life...
The Marvster
JoinedPosts by The Marvster
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25
Dreaming
by Sabin infriends i have question to ask.
i suffered with horrific nightmares for along time.
i`m talking years.
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25
Dreaming
by Sabin infriends i have question to ask.
i suffered with horrific nightmares for along time.
i`m talking years.
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The Marvster
Hi Sabin, thanks for the response, and the welcome... Glad I had this conversation about dreams. I have resisted dream dictionaries for the moment, though I have borrowed a few 'dream' books from the library, ones that contain short lists of suggested interpretations and ideas about dreams... One more thing I can say is that, since leaving the org i have become a much more honest person (go figure), and this also comes out in my dreams too.... and it's such a pleasure waking up after a dream realising that in the dream state i was 'true to myself, and honored my emotions' especially when I have what I call 'Jehovah Witness' dreams.... it's really refreshing to awaken and realise that I was totally honest with myself in the dream state...
thanks for all your info, it will be very useful to me and I was glad to be able to get this off my chest thanks to your interesting post, after holding it in for over 2 years
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85
"And what happened next was simply unbelievable!"
by Terry ini always sit in the same spot, just outside starbucks in a vestibule area with a table in the air-conditioned space.
i say "always," but not today.. somebody with two laptops and a table filled with business ledgers was in "my" favorite spot!.
so, i took a tiny wooden table inside the coffee shop on a long padded bench next to 3 other identical tables.. as the clickbait banner ads like to say: "and what happened next was simply unbelievable!".
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The Marvster
Terry: It seems like you are from a previous generation to mine and were really honed in regurgitating the watchtower doctrine and method as a Pioneer. I didn't get to those levels (see? I still call them 'levels', gosh I still believe in the hierarchy) but constantly wished I could so that I could skillfully tackle anybody, or get loads of studies by the use of my persuasion, I just was never able to reach for that somehow, though I managed to auxilary pio quite a bit, Just didn't think i had the brass balls to pioneer.
Re: I began looking at how I was thinking. I quickly realized I was NOT really thinking..
So true; My take on the whole thinking thing is that once I really started thinking about all I learned in the org, I realised how much of a fool I was for assuming I 'had the truth'... I handn't thought anything through and even if apparent contradictions or counter arguments came along, I was unwilling to investigate them for fear of the walls coming down so of course I would be unprepared for a 'real thinker'...
Re: That Mormon Elder Cleaned my Clock...
Wow, I love it, I had that done to me by a non-Christian guy on the door who 'schooled' me in bible knowledge telling me, among other numerous facts unknown to me, that there were 4 Jesus' in the bible, I was flabbergasted, and speechless, and with a disgusted look he just quietly and slowly shut his door in my face while I stood there like a deer in headlights not knowing how to respond. When I got home I checked his accuracy.... my first thought? 'shame on you Marv'... lol.. but, still, I wasn't persuaded to actually start thinking, that took a long time to happen.
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25
Dreaming
by Sabin infriends i have question to ask.
i suffered with horrific nightmares for along time.
i`m talking years.
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The Marvster
P.S. there's no way you are nuts man, after my experience what you describe is absolutely logical.... unless of course I'm totally nuts myself too... Lol
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25
Dreaming
by Sabin infriends i have question to ask.
i suffered with horrific nightmares for along time.
i`m talking years.
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The Marvster
Hi Sabin, I've been trawling through the topics as there are so many added every day.... it was a pleasant surprise to stumble across your thread.... I've wanted to talk about this for ages, but there was nobody who could understand it fully (well that's what I thought at least), because I think my dreams have changed as a direct result of leaving the org...
I used to have terrible nightmares, very regularly, ranging from violent gangs attacking me, recurring plane crash dreams, to filthy graphic demonic murderous bloody killings; I killed with my bare hands in a very bloody manner on several occasions (either humans or demon-like creatures) and awoke feeling as though I was a despicable demonic human, I do not exaggerate.... Well, guess what happened? after I got DF'd, I decided to find out about life on my own terms, and soon enough I started to discover why I was constantly in fear, fear for no reason, every morning on awakening, before leaving for work, this horrible gnawing unexplained fear ... after having an epiphany about the causes, I started to work at them. For me, they were to do with a total lack of self value, and putting all other people above my own importance; i was basically deeply unhappy and constantly devalued of my own opinions and worth etc. After about 3 or 4 months of working at this, trying to learn to accept and value myself as much as or even more than others, I noticed that my underlying uneasiness started to fade and for the first time ever, I actually felt what it was like to be myself, I had NEVER EVER felt this feeling before, and once I got this confidence, I noticed one day, that my nightmares had almost completely ceased, it had happened so gradually that i didn't notice that they had disappeared several weeks before.
Also as I gained confidence in myself, I started some self comfort methods before going to bed; I would tell myself that 'absolutely nothing can harm me' and even if an entity attacked me, all it could do was 'kill me' and nothing more.. I'm amazed as I think back to this because I don't even know how I came across these ideas... I was doing a lot of dismantling of the watchtower doctrine and belief systems at the time and listening to my heart and intuition and to philosophers etc on youtube. Then on a few occasions as I slept I felt these so-called entities sitting on me, trying to suffocate me etc, and one night i had enough and thought 'I'm not moving', and I just laid there and let it sit on me, it felt like it was happening all night' and I refused to move or get terrified... and since then these apparently demonic dreams all but disappeared... I don't know if it was a result of gaining confidence, I have no idea, all I can say is that when I was in the org, I had a lot of anxiety, over field service, giving talks, secret sins, feeling like a loner, no sisters interested in me etc etc, a long list of anxiety creating thought processes... with all that behind me I just think I changed psychologically which seemed to affect the subconscious... I do get irregular nightmares from time to time but like yourself I am into dream analysis and I try to figure out what they mean for me, so they are not even a problem anymore. I actually had one last night which left me subdued all day, but after spending hours pondering its meaning some interesting things came out and I learned more about myself and my inner feelings... this is how I try to use the dreams I have, to help me come to terms with my inner BS....!
thanks again for posting...
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85
"And what happened next was simply unbelievable!"
by Terry ini always sit in the same spot, just outside starbucks in a vestibule area with a table in the air-conditioned space.
i say "always," but not today.. somebody with two laptops and a table filled with business ledgers was in "my" favorite spot!.
so, i took a tiny wooden table inside the coffee shop on a long padded bench next to 3 other identical tables.. as the clickbait banner ads like to say: "and what happened next was simply unbelievable!".
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The Marvster
Terry, you are the 'devil's child' you 'badass Mo Fo' from Hell...... THAT WAS BRILLIANT... I sat here 'wishing' I could even begin to imagine how to broach a subject like that in such an impromptu manner with gung ho witnesses... wow, you were thinking on your feet, AMAZING..
Here's what I think, as JW's we were all taught to be a little bit arrogant, i.e. we were so prepped that we almost ALWAYS had the upper hand when preaching to the others, we were spoon fed all the clever answers, and didn't have to invest much time thinking about how to talk to people because we had all the weaponry provided practically word for word in the publications; we were just lucky enough to supposedly know more than the average Joe, and often we would have an answer for 'every' objection, that's what the reasoning book and monthly KM's were there for, all of it filtered down from very experienced field service veterans and the results research on millions of hours of field service conversations, all compiled into the ultimate objection destroyer. Maybe once in a while we had the daunting misfortune of coming across somebody who could actually 'think' and stop us in our tracks, but that may have seldom been the case... so, we thought we can handle anybody, we were indestructible blah blah blah... and this is exactly where those two witnesses might have been coming from... learned arrogance or unchallenged self assurance... it's not their fault, they're just a product of the watchtower method.. and then they meet Terry, and then 'KABOOM'
Maybe for the first time EVER, they were made to think for themselves, and they didn't like it; massive cognitive dissonance going on there.. you are totally within your rights to feel bad Terry, after all they are your feelings, but I'll tell you one thing; with all the anger I've been experiencing lately, realising how much of my life that org stole after I bought into their 'truth', ignorant of the mountain of hidden lies behind it all, It was a massive comfort seeing a couple of their pawns get what was coming to them, thank you for contributing to my healing... you can't always pamper people anyway, and you did it in a fairly respectful manner, Imagine how Jesus would have dealt with them (just think of his rant with the pharisees), even if they don't awaken, then they might be a bit more careful about what they say to their next preaching victim....
Nothing but praise and admiration for your courage and ingenuity.... 'one badass devil's advocate'
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So, I became very ill ... what did my loving brothers do?
by EdenOne inrecently i have fallen ill with a serious case of chickenpox (shingles).
three weeks down, high fevers, and the blisters attacked mostly my scalp and face, but then also my whole upper body.
i looked horrid, truly like a mutant monster out of a nuclear disaster.
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The Marvster
Eden one... well said... I've actually come to hate the very thought that I once used to do good acts to strangers in the hope they would ask questions so that I could tell them I was a JW, and give praise to Jehovah, and perhaps get a potential return visit, and a great talking point for an assembly part, or watchtower comment.. how 'bloody' selfish... there was always that 'hidden' agenda behind every good action.. I absolutely loathe this now I've seen it for what it is.... it feels like my whole existence was 'fake'... it don't surprise me one bit that brothers have lost that genuine, care free, agenda free love for people... -
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So, I became very ill ... what did my loving brothers do?
by EdenOne inrecently i have fallen ill with a serious case of chickenpox (shingles).
three weeks down, high fevers, and the blisters attacked mostly my scalp and face, but then also my whole upper body.
i looked horrid, truly like a mutant monster out of a nuclear disaster.
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The Marvster
And anyway we shouldn't be surprised by all this... just look at how VALIANTLY so many witnesses go the extra mile to shun a fellow human they have been friends with and known for 10, 20, 30 years, or their own flesh and blood, shunned forever in the bat of an eyelid ....
the lack of love shouldn't surprise any of us...
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So, I became very ill ... what did my loving brothers do?
by EdenOne inrecently i have fallen ill with a serious case of chickenpox (shingles).
three weeks down, high fevers, and the blisters attacked mostly my scalp and face, but then also my whole upper body.
i looked horrid, truly like a mutant monster out of a nuclear disaster.
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The Marvster
EdenOne - your experience both deeply saddens me while simultaneously filling me with an intense burning red hot blazing fire of rage in every cell of my god damn body.. I feel your pain
This sort of thing reeeeeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaally pisses me off.
Over the last year or so, thinking about JW behaviour, i had an epiphany... it may be right, it may be wrong..but I feel that JW's show love, 'love bombing' etc, not out of deep compassion for the person you are, but rather, because it apparently 'pleases Jehovah' and 'makes Jehovah look like a loving god, through his so-called people's actions'... they are doing it 'for Jehovah's name's sake' (because for some reason he is unable to do this for himself), or because it was A COMMAND from Jesus..., they love because it's written in a book that admonishes it or because they are told from the platform when and who to love; there is no heart in it, in other words, their love is out of DUTY, they love because they HAVE TO do it... I guess the reason why 'brothers' don't make contact, and have nothing to say is because, 'it's not in the kingdom ministry, or in the study edition of the watchtower', if they're not told how to act, then they don't act because there is no compassion in there in the first place.... Any previously existing involuntary or impromtu, or impulsive compassion they may have had was ceremonially removed a looooong time ago...
And now they are acting like the typical pharisee who practiced 'corban' (or Korban),because when they have the opportunity to show love to another human, they would rather take that gift (their time and love) and dedicate it to Jehovah, and leave another human to suffer or hold back love from someone in need; Jesus hated this, but this is exactly how JW's act..
Matthew 15:5,6-- But YOUsay, ‘Whoever says to his fatheror mother: “Whatever I have bywhich you might get benefit from me is a gift dedicated to God,”he must not honor his fatherat all...
This is exactly how those brothers acted towards you, they go by the book just like the pharisees, and any natural affection is completely suppressed. Sorry you had to experience that lack of love. Hopefully it will reinforce any doubts you had about returning to the fold
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Evolution is not even a theory! So says the WTBTS writing dept!!
by DATA-DOG inhas anyone read the new awake ragazine??
it's a doozy!!
i thought we had a thread concerning this subject, but i can't find it.
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The Marvster
I'm amazed too... the father actually said that he is 'open' minded, and says that he has NEVER heard anyone explain this; this seems to imply that he has asked many people to explain it, including many scientists in the field, checked all the available text books, documentaries, published articles etc etc, and found that NOBODY is able to explain this. Which JW could ever have the time to do this with all the studying of the watchtower materials they have to do which consumes all their time? where did his dad find time to do all this research...? The arrogance of the JW mentality; make an enormous sweeping statement, having done very little research into the matter, and that sweeping statement MUST BE THE IRREFUTABLE TRUTH.. if anyone challenges you on it, just dismiss them without hearing what they have to say.